Plumber’s Angel Shareen Sinclair’s Tips for Success | Off The Job: A Tradesman Podcast S4 Ep7

Keiran and Pete welcome Shareen Sinclair, the Plumber’s Angel in Episode 7 of Season 4 on Off The Job: A Tradesman Podcast. With a unique journey from banking and property investment to supporting trades businesses, Shareen shares actionable tips on:

Pricing your work confidently 
Balancing business with family life 
Using social media to build a sustainable customer base 

Shareen’s expertise in small business consultancy and her passion for empowering tradespeople make this episode a must-listen for anyone in the trade. Whether you’re looking to systemise your business, improve work-life balance, or tackle mental health challenges, Shareen has you covered.

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Warning: Contains adult humour and language.

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Transcript

0:01

right okay welcome to off the job another episode today we have plumbers Angel Shereen Sinclair here with us we're very delighted to see you and hear from her how you doing I'm doing very well good to be here with you again we're gonna tell all the plumbers out there how you should run your business well we're not quite we're not telling people what they should do we don't know I don't tell people what to do last time we guide them that's it skillfully navigate them around till they figure out what they need to do last time we see each other was at Becks hmm yeah the event where we yeah that's where we met yeah yeah uh uh well being talk uh you and I was on the stage giving some advice we weren't doing and um stuff out free haha it was all free advice you know um do you go to most of the shows or I do I do cause I've got to keep up with what's going on yeah in the arena so I go to install the show I go to fix I've been doing that for about four or five years so um let's get a bit of info on you okay right okay so where it works so use you use it uh school where where did you live where did you grow up etcetera etcetera so originally from film right before it was posh so way way back the other day but from kind of secondary school grew up in south London yeah so I'm a south girl yeah my mum's a south girl southwest Wandsworth oh I'm straight I'm ST Raetham yeah so yeah it's the better side in it yes the reason darling it's not yeah we got two we got two marks and Spencers ha ha ha ha ha ha we've gone up in the world ha ha 2 Marks and Spencer's and free train stations you can't go wrong yeah so yeah great transport links brilliant yeah so grew up there went secondary school um in Ballam so yeah very posh now wasn't then um and then went to university oh and what did you uh study at university business business I did indeed I study business studies so actually I failed my a levels did really good in my GCSEs failed all my a levels and my mom was like needs to go and get a job and I'm like oh don't wanna get a job she like we need to do something worked for about went in worked for Barclays and went there for about 6 months and I thought saw this I'm not I'm not doing this no no went back to college um and did a diploma in business and finance alright whilst I still continue working at the bank and that allowed me to bypass the first year of university and then to be able to do the degree in 2 years right so one question right just me and you bit of roleplay yeah alright wait a minute bring you in a minute I am self employed plumber yes yeah uh I wanna go into something completely different can I borrow £20,000 off of you no babe where was you when I was 22 and that happened to me because that got me in so much debt Midland Banks went yeah of course you can gosh and it ruined me for years actually cause I started in commercial banking and I didn't understand how much money was floating around so we used to have the accounts working in banking for what 10 12 years never saw any cash cause I always worked in commercial so you'd see the numbers on the screen you know what how many zeros is that you can't even pronounce how many millions and billions is and what they would do and how they make money and how they send money to the Treasury at night and then they get an interest payment on it and it pops back the next morning it's still numbers in it it's all numbers but it's a it's a circulation game what did you learn from the banks being there for 12 years first thing I learnt was there was a lady sat down next to me I'm sure her name was Wendy and she was in her 50s and had been doing the same job that I came in to do at 17 and I was being paid the same money that she was oh gosh and that was don't do this no until you're 50 that was the first lesson um the second lesson back then you got kind of a job for life and they take care of you pick your employers well back in the day um and the third lesson really was if you give your employers reasons to see you and recognise what you're able to do they'll reward you so Barclays has been very very good to me and I did multiple roles in the bank cause I suppose I was a go getter and they saw that and I had initiative and yeah got promoted all over the place got to do so did you deal with like loans and stuff for commercial companies and so not any lanes but also taking connections about this not anymore unfortunately they're all gone I'll be fine otherwise I use it for myself they're my they're my next problem bank to be fair not a problem but you know we are a few quid but yeah that's all gone yeah left all of that behind so you you you you decided then from there obviously you've you've come into this domain then what and and started your own business through for what reason plumbers Angel what what reason was that fair few steps in between so I left banking took voluntary redundancy cause that's what you did in the days you waited for your payout you didn't just leave um and the idea was I'd come back as a consultant cause that's what you do you'd take your voluntary redundancy and then they'll employ you back again as a freelance consultant um and I trained as a coach in 2025 cause I was doing consultancy for the bank anyway by the time I left 2025 so 2,005 skip 40 skip 40 year then you can see I'm already thinking about 2025 already thinking about next year already yeah so um it did that left that and went into property um investment so I started buying properties um but then we had the great crash didn't we couple of years 2000 what you mean you mean that cold spill there's more than a cold spell where banking collapse yeah and also the property set to collapse simultaneously you know I think about that I was not aware of it and I was 18 at that time and I just didn't have a clue I think you probably should have no because you were still kind of coming through school and that stage it wasn't just probably affecting you that much but yeah if you had mortgages or you had properties or you didn't anything in the arena you kind of knew about and yeah things had to take a turn what year was that 2,007 2,008 yeah I don't really remember it to be fair 2002 2000 I didn't really I wouldn't say it really affected me in a way cause I was just doing my everyone needs a plumber didn't they oh yeah so you you start in 2,005 bought properties and it all crashed in 20 2008 yeah that must have been a scary time then hundred percent scary time hmm and my other half is a plumber yeah um scary time hmm and your husband was is a plumber was a plumber yeah was a plumber he's not a plumber anymore no he's not a plumber anymore all right he's not anything anymore he died oh I'm very sorry to hear that I didn't know that I was unaware of that most people know it's fine but okay so he was a plumber and you see the side of obviously that side cause my thing is a lot of the time is that the other halfs don't understand a lot of what tradesmen have to go through and and a lot a lot of other after that me cause they've got they've got their their work at home with the kids etcetera daily running in the house etcetera etcetera so everyone's in their own little like important space yeah we are too etcetera but you you actually see that side of it as well when I like to think he was sympathetic to his needs yes did you understand or not or not or not she's gonna admit now submission no I didn't in the beginning I was sympathetic to his needs and I think this accounts for all of half you're sympathetic to their needs until you realise they're not doing the stuff that they're supposed to be doing to bring in the money that they're supposed to be bringing in right because they're stubborn and they're pickheaded and they love the thing that they're doing not the business yeah behind the thing yeah um and I like many other half stepped in to help but when you've got other priorities you've got jobs you've got kids in my case properties is running developments at the time doing different things just haven't got the capacity hmm to do everything and then that starts bringing problems yeah in the relationship because they don't feel that they're getting the support but how are you supposed to support everything and everyone yeah yeah still take care of yourself yeah I get that I get that because a lot like you say they'll be them my mate said to me the other day she said the most important tool to work with or to make money is the pencil or the pen whatever way you wanna live it cause he says I'm not on the tools anymore this is what I make money from like it's obviously like he runs his business from home now he's like does like garage doors and stuff like that and he's got a team of his his own or his subs workout yeah and the other he said that's my most important tool cause he goes I'm not out on the tools anymore so I'm running it because you can't it's very hard to run a business on the tools at the same time I'm just a sole trader I'll just go out to work earn money it's not a business sense it's not at least you know and you're honest yeah yeah it's not that's the difference I'm not a businessman and it's not what you'd call a business it's not like I could go I'm gonna sell this business to like Charlie Mullins because I mean I'm a sole trader yeah but if you wanna build a business you've got to have that structure hundred percent behind in the office bit and and pulling all the strings in being the puppet master aren't you obviously and us on the tools can't do that either I don't think and not everyone's cut out for it no I think that's the other thing and that's why like I was saying to before I do a free consultation with people cause my thing is I'd happily give you half an hour hmm to see where you're at and see what I can help you with and if I don't think there's anything I can help you with then I'll be quite honest yeah and some people are just using it as a job but let's look at it for what it actually is and the thing is I've grown up in the trades as well my dad's an electrician so I know he's still an electrician oh girl so I say to people I've come from the trades yeah I've lived with the trades I've employed the trades as well during development so I come with a 3 60 view yeah of things so completely different to most people so I like to look at the individual first yeah see where the individual is and what they want what their capacity is and then build the business accordingly and for some people it's like okay treat it like a job but make sure that you're putting money aside for your pension make sure that you're saving make sure you're doing all the things that you would do if you were with an employer you got pen and pencil whatever he's holding it don't worry about it getting free stuff yeah make sure you're doing all the things that you would do if you had an employer because the problem comes as you know aches and pains kicking yeah you can't work at the same place that you're working at before the younger ones are coming up behind you there faster and yeah you don't have a pension in place you don't have anything in place for when you can't work at that capacity and and those are the things that people don't think about I tell him this I tell him this all the time I tell him these younger people 10 years behind me I tell him you're not gonna be able to do that the same as you was but in 10 years time it's gonna hurt didn't I always say that it's gonna hurt yeah but it's not as easy to get out of that though and that's not easy to get out of it but you people are stuck in it but you do need to and I've my fully I cannot tell people I can't preach because I've not done any of the things that you said I am I am that bloke on that bloke who's who failed that you are I need shrink I I failed at the business side of it I've absolutely felt I got no money I've not putting you away I've not got pension yeah not nothing absolutely no time your next wife okay you still got time ha ha ha got to add in the children yeah but you still got time yeah when did you start the whole helping plumbing businesses then cause it yeah 2008 when the crash open yeah so I was working for about 10 years helping trade um helping investors build their businesses and doing developments as well and then I got fed up when the government started changing all the rules around tax um that's another conversation um and then I worked started working with small businesses uh Anish into plumbers in 2000 and that was primarily because needed a new bathroom yes that's exactly what you get free work done for these plumbers come on now so I was having my bathroom done during lockdown like most people you're in your house and you're like okay I'm in here I'm trapped in here all the time yeah let me do all the little jobs that I need to do um and the plumber came in and oh my God that phone rang constantly I'm like what is going on they were great at what they were doing I'm like you can't get anything done so I started speaking to him and he's like yeah I need somebody like you but a bit stubborn as you do um and after about two months I was like no I actually need to start thinking about how can how can I actually work in this space and my business coach um yes I'm a coach and I also have a coach because I know I do dumb stuff and yeah everyone needs a coach no matter what level you're at there's always someone above you people are always shocked I'm just like I'm great with other people but I can't get myself out of my own way so my coach said to me Sherene you need to niche you can't keep on helping all businesses cause you can't really serve everyone really well niche and um one of the niches that came up ironically were plumbers and electricians he had no idea about that my dad was electrician and that my ex is a plumber but I just happened to know more about plumbing then I do about electric thought you're gonna say in then so no more about that and I thought you know what let me go into that and that's where kind of Plummer's Angel kind of started brilliant it's a good story isn't it yeah so what is the um what's the plans then what what are you where are you gonna take it are you got or we got to keep it under the show is it I don't know like what what do you want it now um don't mind cool have you got any other questions did you wanna ask like yeah I wanna ask sort of yeah what are the biggest challenge we spoke a lot about it what are the biggest challenges like if someone comes to you yeah what are the biggest challenges they're facing give it yeah I'll tell you what that that's good right but let me elaborate what's the worst case of sort of thing do you know what I mean 11 what's the best result you've had out of out of of somebody coming to that's that's we could have been felt I think that there's a couple of things in there sometimes really really simple things that people can't see so that same plumber who did my bathroom um when I started working with him it was actually the beginning of lockdown and as you know when lockdown happened no one really knew what was going on there was a panic everything was shutting down and he was like oh my God sure I'm gonna have no money I've got a child I've got maintenance to pay I've got all these things to pay five minute conversation with him sat down and realised he hasn't been issuing invoices he's been doing the work but he hasn't been issuing invoices so let's okay where's the easiest place where we can go in and tap up and get money for people who are not really that fast about whether they can pay you know they'll have the cash rate to be able to pay and it was letting agents so he had a few letting agents on his books sent two emails and got 16 grand in 24 hours well he had an invoice he had an invoice he had for the work for 16 grand multiple small jobs how does he survive how does he how does he get out of the work the problem that much worth how are these funds got all the time yeah and the biggest problem that I see with people is overwhelmed so because they're in overwhelm they constantly running the wheels and they're certain things that are falling off so sometimes one of the things that falls off is invoices so a lot of people will complain as the guy came and did the work and they need an invoice for the work well that's cause he's gone on to the other job in this one's case he wasn't writing anything down he was forgetting what he actually yeah exactly forgetting what he actually did and wasn't keeping track of those things so the first thing is they tend to do just go and get a diary and just write everything down feels like I'm keeping it in my head I'm like well your head's not working no because you're missing half the stuff so sometimes it's just removing that small pin for people if you like and allowing a little bit of systemization it doesn't have to be fancy because I work with people based on where they're at then you've got the other ended spectrum who people who are probably younger they're into using tech a lot more so one extreme I've got people who won't even using a diary then I've got other people who use in tons of tech and have no idea they doing a wasting loads of time with tons of tech and then trying to do social media stuff and it's like okay are you a social media influencer or are you a plumber make up your mind cause you can't actually be both it's very difficult to do both and it's working with them to work out okay exactly what's needed what is that look like going forward and how can we make it easy for you to get what you want and get the results that you want for you and your family cause nine times out of 10 the reason why people get into business is to move them and their family from where they are now to where they wanna be and then they forget the whole family thing in it and then end up working too hard not thinking about how they structure in their days miss out on the children growing up the other half gets pissed off and then before you know it they've gone because what you promised them is not what you've delivered yeah that's a big problem you see that work in all the hours you see you do see that a lot lot lot of people will work seven days a week eight till six and they're like with their their partners they're like passing ships yeah passing ships and and like I say and then and then as well after that they feel guilty that they have not spent time in a kit and it is too late once you've once you've done that it's very but but at the same time and I've said this before it's very easy it's very easy for people to look in and say oh we shouldn't work but then if he hasn't got the work or if he needs to work and he needs to get the money then he's got to do it isn't he somehow but if you can make that easier for him hundred percent you come step in and and tell us where we're going wrong because we need people like you to manage us yeah yeah and it's not so much me managing you it's me showing you where things can be done better yeah and getting you to question what you doing why you doing it and how it can be improved I remember being a child and my dad not turning up for stuff because he's got to go off on a job one job LED to another job so he'd miss stuff for school for example and it's like stuff that you remember hmm that stuff but in here so do you thinking well I'm trying to provide them yeah and it come with the 50 pound notes and give you stuff yeah great trainers yeah and all the trainers that I want yeah yeah but you've got that flip side and I think for most men and they don't talk about it and this is where the kind of well being side comes in that's a big thing for the missing out on the bits with their children yeah it's recreating that um that balance back so it doesn't have to be all one way yeah or all the other way it doesn't have to be that hard yeah yeah do you oh go on do you select people that do work all the hours under the sun do you tell them to say no to work or to depend on their financial situation whether they need to work like like said it's easy to say to someone I'll say no but if they need that money they're stuck in a rubber but did you try and guide people to say no if they're in a financial position to do so no one thinks they're in the financial position to say no so let's start off there so no one no one thinks that they can do that in the first place what I look at is what they're doing and what is costing them because there's always a cost to something and it's looking at what that real cost is so sometimes it can be as simple as OK try not to go out of a certain geographical area because the time that you're spending going from point a to point B to point C is it's too much so we're gonna have to call back in on a geographical base but it's also nine times out of 10 the pricing is too low they're not charging enough money hmm we say that a lot but in the as you know as well especially with the the current economy a lot of people are undercutting people just to win jobs so do you know what I mean yeah they're doing it for like I always say to people if you're if you're a soul even if you're a soul trader and we we talk about day rates I hate the day rate word to be quite honest with you it's not it's not a word that I really like to use but but if you're working for a day rate and that day rate is just getting you by then you're not a business at all because you could go and work for the man for that money couldn't you we spoke mate then we had a video I don't know if you see it and a lot and a lot of people in the outside section the people looking in don't see that they don't see us as running that actual business they see us actually trying to like rob them but we're not we're trying to build a business and and support our families it's an expensive business as well plumbing and trade business is expensive yeah massive expensive there's a couple of ways of kind of looking at that first of all people are not paying for your our time and paying for your experience um but what I do with clients is get them to find a niche so I've got a formula for finding a niche because once you're in an each one it makes it easier for people to refer to you and to you're seen as a specialist so you can charge a premium on that because you're serving customer pain points and you're being able to speak to that rather than doing everything that alone helps us kind of increase the prices cause if you're in the race to the bottom with somebody else you're always gonna lose hmm so don't play that game and it's looking for people um customers who understand that the value that you bring to them rather than you just coming in to do that service hmm that we need a customer angel as well tell me but it's uh you know it's uh I I say that with jest but I actually mean it because the actual general public really need to be educated in what what they're getting because I will I never understand it they go out and they buy the money on handbag do you not mean to buy them Armani handbags for how much money am it it was made for in another country in a sweatshop or something like that I don't wanna think oh that's fine you get plumber come around your house or an electrician come around and it cost them 400 quid to do a job they like what what why no I don't I don't get the mentality it's not there and and the same but it's again it's all about that everyone likes to look good in this world is very pretentious and it's all about what somebody's got and if they can't see what they've got hence pipe work under the floor or wires in the wall they don't wanna pay it and that's simple is that is it but that's we're talking about things based on value yeah comes in value and benefits it's like my love if you don't wanna be cold this winter gonna need to pay yeah to get the new boiler done yeah and this is what we do and this is what happens behind it rather than saying just replacing the boiler there's a way of talking to people yeah so that they really understand the value that you bring rather than just the thing that you're coming in right yeah to do and that's the bit that trace people haven't quite got you got to be a bit of a salesperson but bringing a bit of education to the customer as well yeah yes you are a sales business yeah selling yourself all you're selling your service all the time or not yourself I hope not but yeah that's a different kind of plumbing conversation um yeah but you're selling your services yeah all the time if you're um so if you're stuck in a rut well you've got customers that don't wanna pay the money cause you do get stuck in that right you're not charging the right money like how do you get out of that is it literally just taking the leap put your prices out you might get less work but then you're probably earning the same money like people that are stuck in how do they get out of that you almost feel trapped because I think what you're trying to say is right if you've built a reputation in your town as being that guy yeah he's well cheap boys well yeah reasonable blah blah blah how do you then because as soon as you hit your customer with a new Bill gun that's the new charges are gonna go wow and they go I can't believe it how expensive he is now do you know what I mean and then so that that and then it's it's a process and actually the first shift that has to happen is in the individual so it's a mindset shift for that person that they're now worthy of this new price so the reason why I don't tell people what to charge is cause if I tell somebody what to charge if they don't feel worthy of of that price all they're gonna do is go out then discount it anyway to bring it back down to where they're comfortable so part of the work that I do with them is increasing their self worth so that they then realise hold on a minute I'm not this is too cheap you know and when clients come in and say to me I've raised my prices I'm like okay now we're on the chat and what happens is you get incremental price increases quite quickly and the reason why people will do things like that and they'll wanna sell thing that they wanna sell their services quite cheaply is because they just don't feel worthy they don't feel that they're worth any more than that they don't feel that they're worth getting a certain amount of money a year living a certain kind of lifestyle so when I'm looking at what they want initially we're looking at okay how do we get them from here to here and it's always bringing them back to but remember you said you wanted this this is the route to get in it but there's so much work that the end that has to be done on the individual rather than just Freya prices up just run this strategy cause they won't it's a very yeah cause speaking on on in my head I'm that guy I'm that guy who goes oh Doris do you know what I mean I can't charge her that much money or or or oh that that's an awful that seems like an awful lot of money do you know what I mean I don't know if I should charge that job well we all feel it a lot of people will feel it obviously guys who are more ruthless not ruthless but more business yeah minded can go in and go and do it without thinking about no that's the money that's how much good but a lot of us because a lot of us come from a working class background that is what it is and we've seen our parents struggle with stuff and this and that's where it comes from yeah and if we've been bought up with people like that within the trades who we worked with and that I remember my mate turning around to me once he them and this goes and this will hopefully explaining some things about why people's mindsets are the way they are my mate was uh obviously a plumber right and uh I work with him a lot and his day rate was hundred and fifty quid a day uh huh right back I know let's say 10 years ago which was did nothing right but his mindset was if somebody come around my house and charge £200 out I want them work you know for that right okay and I was like right but then I thought to myself please is is cancer houses paid up do you know what I mean his mortgage is paid up he hasn't got worried about a mortgage yeah right because he managed to get a discount on his earn the right to buy yeah earn the right to buy done that and he's still in that frame of like well this is how much I need to earn yeah but it's not really level with everybody else who's got more to you and I know you said the other day it's about it shouldn't be about like um your everybody's personal outcomes but but really is because you need an amount of money to survive and provide a house for your kids in it you know I mean all your misses or whatever you and everyone's everyone's situation is different and if somebody if there's there's an old boy climber out there who's who's got only bills to shit out well he can afford to like charge 150 200 quid a day and you're going up against these people well do you know what I mean that that's where the nation comes in yeah because you then lock out a lot of competition because you're seen as a specialist in that zone and we can nation lots of different ways um even outside of shows businesses the way that my mind works I can find niches based on who you've got access to and the service that you provide and the pain points of that customer we can slick that down really really well really really well and once you're there and you're delivering um value to them and you're speaking to their pain points immediately they're just like okay you sound like you know what you're doing and I trust you so what people don't realise most of the time is people buying based on trust they're not buying based on price so the reason why people will go to Pimlico for example is not because well Pimlico Plum is what they called down yeah so people will go to them not necessarily because they've got loads of money but they're going to them for the certainty cause they know they phone them they get a certain service someone's gonna turn up at a certain time they're gonna turn up in a van they're gonna turn up in a uniform there's an office that they can call that's what they're paying hmm so if more trace people could provide that level of service you'd be surprised at what happens out the other end and people talk there aren't the standards are so low if you like in providing high quality business side of things for trades turning off on time issuing invoices do what you say you're gonna do when you said you're gonna do it kinda put you in the top 10% hmm that's it it's really really simple and loads of people need that but not very many people are willing to jump the bar to provide that standard all the time and when you think about where most people have come from we haven't been taught no that that's the thing so we haven't been taught that so it's a whole shift so when you talk about you know someone's come from working class I'm working with people where I'm trying to shift 40 years worth of that kind of training if you like programming that they've got in their mind to get them to think differently before we can then really apply the strategies on top I think we need an extra uh I think we need like an extra point in college or like you know what I mean after you've done your trade your qualification then there's an extra you know what I mean like uh optional right I think whether or not people wanna take that that level uh take like a uh a course in trade management or are out but they should be part it should be available in colleges as an extra like you know thing off of the course yeah if you think of that they'd have to do that across every sector yeah but they but you make it optional don't you yeah but still they've still got that's a big thing to set up it's not just talking about plumbing this is talking about every single sector in a college they'll have to have an individual business training it that's a lot if you look at his plum anything yeah but they'd have to set it for everyone and that's why you have people like plum as Angel that are doing it to actually have it as a government thing mmm is a I'm not trying to take position ha ha ha look I'm in my own nation I'm going to someone said but in schools there is no business like it's not it's not taught there is there is business generically but then even within business there are nuances so like I said I was doing General Smith small business coaching before if you got a coach who's dealing with personal trainers accountants and plumbers there's such a wide um kind of variety of personality you can't really drill down on who that is whereas generally we know plumbers are of a certain type of people they have a certain type of thinking there you go but then you've got slight nuances on that where electricians are slightly different scaffolders are slightly different builders exactly so kind of working in the trade space you get to know that so the language the delivery everything is geared towards being able to make those people move through things faster but I think the college is their job is to teach the technical side of things and not the business cause they're training people to go into jobs they're not training people to go into business but they have the business courses if you wanna do it so that they have that option didn't they just not niche down to they couldn't niche it down to every sex that feel like too much and that's where you put in specialist help to be able to do that you said about the um you don't tell anyone what to do put uh to charge but what is your view on pricing like should you charge per job hourly day rate how do you base off your day it has to depend on what the person will tolerate I know that's of like a wide variant because some people are happy with the day rate so what I'm looking at is getting them to inch that up some people per hour and it depends on the kind of jobs that they're doing as well if it's a set type of job and we know exactly what that is from start to finish most times we can do kinda like a blanket price on that and we can set that because we're doing the same thing over and over again but what I need people to do is to run themself through that pricing process so that they can actually see what it is and the other thing is we've got things like inflation no one's accounting for inflation so if you haven't put your prices up inflation has been going up for god knows how long you're making less money than you were anyway that's why you feel poorer you are poorer because the money doesn't have the same value the £50 doesn't have the same value as it did before tell me about it a lot of people just wing it didn't they they don't have set pricing in the start they just wing it for our charge that for that um some people drive up to people's houses and then decide when they're outside the house yeah a lot of charge yeah I know but it all comes down to lifestyle as well so like if someone was like right I'm happy earning this but you still think it's low would you say okay if you're happy with that and it feeds your lifestyle then hundred percent that's all it comes down to you being happy innit hundred percent and it's based on what does the person need yeah you know because there's no point in me trying to turn someone into Pimlico plumbers if they're happy to be a 2 or 3 mam Bam that's what they want because you've got to work with people's capability because businesses fell for two reasons they either grow too fast or too slow trace businesses is always too fast so that wheel starts turning really really quickly more stuff comes on and the wheels fall off because of foundation isn't really in place but then we have to look at what is the individual capable of where is their capacity limit what's their family situation like have they got children young children that they kinda need to be there for I speak to a lot of people where um they've got children with special needs you know they need to be around a little bit more so it's like what do you need for your personal situation this time in life how can we plan for that and work with that and how can we then plan for the future so I've got some people who came to me in their 60s and we needed to build really really fast because pension was one of the things that they needed to look at so the business structure that they have is very different to a 35 your mouth yeah cause I was gonna say it again it probably all just comes down to their financial situation as well as building trade outside plumbing I had a couple of engineers tried to get an admin person I was just juggling everything but what point would you say like having two or three engineers unless you're charging the right money they're not gonna earn you enough money to come off the tools so what is there like a a framework of like amount engineers you sort of need to be able to and then you can come off the tools like do you feel you need to get to a certain point of a number of engineers before most people can come off the tools with the battery yeah if done well but they have to charge the right money and stop charging just to take the engine is out on the job and charge like a business so the business has overhead the business has profit margins that it needs to hit once these things are being hit you pricing um the director's time if you like off the back of that as well so it's not just all this is how much we charge per hour it's it's looking at the whole thing in its entirety but people have to be ready to have that conversation but that's very hard to get over to the end user I think it's very hard to get over the end user because it's like let's let's remember let's go back a bit like guys go back to Dominic Littlewood when he'd get all these like cowboy builders or people charging up what is classed as a ripoff do you know what I mean because that's what we're scared of that's what we don't want the name of being we don't wanna get get that name of being a rip off merchant because the only we know that word of mouth is the thing that goes yeah yeah so if you price a job and although you is fair you know what's going on that job you can't stop whether or not it was a fair price or not you can't stop somebody saying I think he was a bit dear tell me because they think it didn't they and that's the thing that deters people like me from going in at the the bright price that I probably should quote or charge because I'm I'm concerned about word of mouth the problem is with word of mouth if you stick with those clients you're gonna get more of those clients yeah that same word of mouth and that's how you get trapped in yeah that loop it's all about the customer base anyway where should we add the time century depends on what you got access to I got at social media well social media is the world that's the problem so new way of like you've seen a lot more trash people running ads in that now that's my niece I advertise myself as an Instagram plumber and um I might do a little 5 minute comedy set for you while I'm putting your boiler up I keep saying to him good niece yeah what I love it that's a new one that's definitely a new one keep saying to him create a video of you servicing a boiler what you're doing and run it as an ad and run it as an ad like or something you don't advertise that you want the work for your social media hundred % if you want more work you're not doing it on that page I do not pay to do on Facebook I got page on Facebook but you can still utilise that just maybe add in some work videos of you good work and as we talk about that I find it so interesting where you've got traits people you know trying to be influencers and I'm like how does how does anyone contact you to get in touch with you to do any work yeah and they're like oh they just come and watch my stuff I'm like what for who cares in fact but are you using it for business or are you using it to feed your ego what is your what is your what is your fault on this social media malarkey of plumbers and tradesmen all on here what is your for you deal with any that do trying to do social media yeah I feel I do know one actually come on here yeah and for me my my take on it is social media is a very new thing I'm all about building sustainable businesses now there's nothing wrong with doing it on the side but it's just like okay is it sustainable are we building a sustainable business with the sustainable customer base that we can control your income on or is it something that is a completely out of your control and you're at the the mercy of the Instagram gods or the TikTok gods and god forbid anyone hacks your account the whole lot's gone yeah overnight because the biggest thing that I see with people is they think social media is their business and it's their platform it's not they can take that away from you overnight so unless you've got a way to pull those people off and collect emails or collect contact details you you've got nothing no and that's the sad thing when people think that they're building up a brand that can literally disappear overnight that's so that's uh yeah lightning to you people out there who use this social media as your business platform uh I don't obviously but that is enlightening because yeah it could be overnight I've seen it happen yeah it's very hard to like say create long term from social media unless you go into like you manage to get to TV or something but to do social media like videos and stuff it's not they said sustainable like long term use it as part of your funnel for business yeah use it to draw people in to your business so the conversation that I have with people is it's like great you've got people in I don't know Australia following you you can't service them not to trace person you can't service them maybe what you can do is link up with somebody else in Australia and have them as a strategic partner and if you get stuff from them then you can pass it through that way use the data that you've got on there where are most of your people coming from do those people even own properly if a lot of them in Sri Lanka apparently hey I was gonna say after but you you need Sri Lankan I think it's the right time of where you are to have it's all about investing yourself yes it's now's the right time to have a mentor I know I need a mentor I do I do yeah you're right I do that will sort out because I'm looking to grow now as a plumber you've been in the next few years obviously I've had a few issues and that a little bit like you know we we've doing all right you know I mean then we've had a few steps back and we've had a few little issues here and there that but we're trying to get back on top of it now but that's business and I think the thing if people think they just personally as well yeah that's that's business and I think people need to recognise that is business so part of what we do is build resilience so when that shit hits the fan which invariably does people are gonna die people are gonna get sick you're gonna get divorce all those things you know stuff like that happen you're gonna get married that changes people in a different way these life changes are gonna happen while you're doing things but it's like can you still keep on doing what you need to do in the business if you got the resilience to do that even when things are going a bit haywire yeah elsewhere and that's what people are paying for they're paying for that consistency and that stability they don't want you to show up one month and then they try and call you again in six months time and you're off the face if the earth because you and your wife have had a Barney and you don't feel like showing up to work for two months yeah which people do hmm that's what people are kind of paying for that level of consistency yeah yeah I think invest in yourself I've done it last couple of years it people think I cost me money but long term that money turns into more like that gets you to the next step basically and I think it's also a way I had a conversation with somebody yesterday actually and they said to me oh they've had a life coach before and I was like great okay how did that go and they goes I became aware of a lot of stuff but now I'm pissed off with what I'm aware of and I was like that's exactly it awareness is the first step but if you haven't got someone kinda guide you through and get you pass that awareness to how do I now start changing the behaviour you just get fed up with the fact that you can see the dumb shit that you're doing but you're still doing it the next step is okay how do I stop doing how do I stop repeating that pattern of behaviour and stop falling in the hole he said like life coach she's obviously a lot out there but I think it's important if you're a plumber electrician go to someone that specialises in that if you're going to a life coach you're so broad they're not gonna know your bit your business well enough yeah so I think it's important to find someone that's in your niche and you've obviously studied it day and day out you work businesses so and lift it yeah yeah I think it's so important to find someone that is what you do basically yeah and people call me up and Nazi plumbing questions all the time they're actually surprised and I bet they're like oh my God I've got friends phone me up a day this has happened I'm get okay check this this and this and this if that doesn't come work I'll call one of the guys out for you and then oh that worked I got um she worked plumbers and electricians plumbers and electricians are my main base actually or is it a mix I don't know I don't think there's one type like that everyone's just everyone's just assuming they got their own little special quirks I'll try to get some like who do you prefer plumbers or electricians I relate to plumbers a lot more for some reason so electricians we're technically gas engineers and most yeah so we say plumbers but a lot of people don't know the difference between plumbers and gas engineers gas engineers are plumbers always tell them yeah and there's a lot of gas engineers out there will not agree I know I know there's a hierarchy darling there's a hierarchy don't mix it up so technically I should be gas engineers angel because that's the the the bulk of the people that I deal with realise they'll be telling you we've had that as well have you thought about changing your name though cause if you work electrician is that gonna be in 2025 in the making so this trades angel as well that runs well because what's happened oh I know oh look look oh it says I'm lying I know um and that's come about because I started off with plumbers um and then I have people say to me oh I'm electrician can you work with me and I'm like yeah I just don't promote it very much but there are other trades that I work with but again even within the trades there's nuances and it's like if you don't know the difference between them then you're still your your advice still has to them between a little bit more so like a scaffold defines me and had a conversation like no no I'm good um I wanna someone needs a scaffold angel oh so when you do trade angel you're not gonna go to all trades you think about trades but yeah yeah I'm still being a little bit selective yeah and really it's the it's the ones that I can help the most so electricians plumbers and builders at the core yeah so you do 1 to 1 at the moment you said you're gonna go into group stuff is that the plan next year yeah so do you have a place where we go or do you visit no I do them online yeah so I started off doing no I started off doing face to face um and if I'm honest the real reason why I stopped was I used to do it um in a coffee shop and um see some clients coming in like one after the other 3 4 times a week so from 6 till 10 and one day I went into this coffee shop by myself and this woman goes is a Mr coming in today and I was like she's got no idea what I do if I don't know what you doing all these men can cover them I was like yeah I'm not gonna do that anymore literally I was like yeah that's not gonna work anymore but doing it online allows me to work with people all over the place yeah and it allows things to be much more succinct as well cause I can meet from one client to another really really so waste of time driving to the coffee shop imagine this lady's like conversation with her husband at home she comes in every day and she's got all these men she didn't tell her what you done no I was too embarrassed and even sometimes that that was years ago even sometimes I go back in there now and she's like when you when you had a customer like a client not turn up did she come down and go oh this is on the house you know what in fairness them they don't ever not turn up no they don't sometimes they'll they'll call so there is policies around um cancellations calling say they're stuck on a job but it will always be several hours in advance and people say to me how do you get them to turn up that's the standard that they come into so they kind of meet me where I'm at and it also teaches them when you set the standards clients actually then fall into line with it yeah my dad's still amazed he's like and they listen to you and they actually do what you say and I'm like yeah did you do do do you give dad any advice um we're not talking to dad no no I I can't work with people that I'm related to right um that's probably we should say that as well we shouldn't do that within the trades industry do it yeah don't it's not respected no it's not respected it's not listened to so I just don't have the conversation right at all okay no and I say the same thing for other halfs as well because some of my best refer is a wife's actually um so they sent me their husbands and like yet you deal with him um and always say my job is to send him back happier and with more money so what's not to love but I find that way do you tell him to buy her flowers I do yeah I do I don't need I don't need to tell me that tell them all the women tricks yeah don't do it yeah we've mapped out birthdays yeah yeah you like that PA yeah we just tell them what to do just like yeah put the flowers on the direct on the standing order with subscription and everything she turned on my secrets so literally my job is to make the whole family happy I get the kids involved as well um so yeah get to know people's children um get the children to hold um their dad accountable cause it's mainly men that I work with staff so that's great so it's integrating the whole family hmm rather than just me is it at the end because you can then like we go we can go back to earlier where we saying way sympathetic with your husband do you know what I mean like you but you can like again yeah cause I'm coming home to miss you and what we do Jeremy speaking when we get home we go oh what a diet uh carbide this thing in it and they'll go like that and you'll go but then but then in the next we have to go and I've had a nightmare with him or early he's been climbing up the walls and you'll and you'll and you'll be good I'm going to have to go to Amy again in my face when he has to break things on each other with my children yeah yeah so it's it's a so one more moan about this one will moan about this but they're not meeting in the middle and just listening to each other sort of thing do you know what I mean my job is to stop that mating yeah at home so let me create that dash you actually speak to the wife and say like just tell him how to understand so I listen to him stop rolling his eyes at the beginning of the process and I find out what they need from him not from a relationship sense that I get involved with that but more from a time and energy sense cause then I can build that into what it is that we're doing so if I'm taking some of the business pressure off he shouldn't be going home and moaning about what's not going right or we're going right at work because then all that does it makes work the almost like the horrible partner that they're going to and then you've got the other half resent in the fact that they're going and they're doing that it just builds up madness and rain I mean a lot of and I've noticed this a lot when I got money I'm stressed that's when things start going wrong that's when I start round with people and stuff like that making bad decisions too yeah and when I got a bit of money in my pocket I'm quite relaxed yeah I mean and it does people say money don't buy you happiness so I'm not saying that it does and right money is not the Bill and end up but it does make things easier if you've got a bit of it about you you know what I mean stability makes things easier but actually um the way that I talk about it is an abundance and scarcity mindset yeah and it's actually not to do with your bank account because if you're running that scarcity mindset it actually doesn't matter how much money you got in the bank then I'm wrong there as well so she's proved two things that I've done were doing wrong in my business already this is a great consultation thanks very much so the interesting thing is um when people start with me they grade themselves on eight different areas in their personal life and then eight different areas in their business life and then we go back again three months later and we have a look at that even if the money coming into their account hasn't changed their perception of it always goes up and they always feel happier and then it makes it easier to them make more money from that because they're not making decisions based on oh my God I'm gonna lose everything it's a very tense kinda hold on to everything energy hmm and I started this conversation saying money requires movement and flow hmm and when you try and hold like that you kinda do yourself a disservicing you make it harder for that money to flow to you yeah so you talk to like the the kids the partners and then can you sort out the ex partners well I help you manage your communication better which means that you can then sort out the ex partners but how about if you come right and done I don't know how you dealt with that I really don't know how you dealt with that I cannot understand that can you believe it I'll tell you if you I don't take sides I'll tell you if you fine I'll tell you a few things off camera but going back to that kind of mindset thing it when you're in a better place actually you have less issues with your ex because you're not in that same headspace unless I'm like it all starts off with the headspace it makes everything so much easier to then deal with it is also a headspace so I hundred percent agree with that but I think to myself I probably am in that mindset where if I have a lot of cushion if I've got that's my mindset and it's wrong if I've got a cushion of dosh then I'm I'm I'm more relaxed you know what I mean I know I'm I'm sort of like and you put like you say it should be about stability and then that will come to you so the stability should come first and then stability will keep that cushion there yeah yeah whereas the scarcity will have that cushion up and down yeah yeah and then what happens is then you then flow with it and it makes it very difficult for you to maintain relationships maintain the business properly maintain customers and maintain your sanity yeah so there is one sorry one thing what you just said you need to know your ingoings and outgoings so how much you need to earn yeah that's why your mind's like yeah you don't if you know exactly what you need to bring in yeah and you plan it out your mindset a little bit so we'll take a look at that later but most people are running from the numbers so they don't actually know a lot of people say to me Sherin I'll start with you you know when I've done my end of your account I am under no illusion that most people have no idea what's going on in their business so numbers is not one of the first things that we deal with cause they just don't know what it is I just focus on bringing in more and then when the time is right then we have a look at the numbers cause they're more relaxed so if I said to you now okay open your book show me your numbers you'll probably be like exactly so it's it's timing those things because then they're prime to have that conversation of okay what are my ingoings what are my outgoings what are my fixed costs what are my variable costs what do I need to make sure I'm putting aside for savings when do I wanna retire don't wanna pay off my house don't wanna change my van all those kind of conversations could be had but in a very different I wanna do all them things I know I wanna retire next year and do all them things and make that man money so I can retire don't worry that's alright we can do it wow we can do it we can do it we're gonna get prepared to put in the work yeah I mean you've got a lot of work there's a lot of work yeah well um yeah so what is your plans you said you have plans for 2025 to go into group stuff yeah so I get told off all the time so I'm the opposite to up in terms of social media and promoting myself people like you need to talk more about what you're doing and I don't wanna I just wanna do what I'm doing and and the big thing is I can't help as many people if I'm not talking about what it is that I do and it's almost like a little bit of a disservice and feeling that I'm keeping a secret from people that can actually really help them so one of the things I should have done it this year and I didn't I checked in doubt of it this is why you need a coach um so one of the things that I'm doing for 2025 is uh doing the great program so having a coal of people who will run the entire 2025 but then actually launching that again every quarter to bring people through so that they're actually working um on a quarter by quarter basis and just running them as cohorts so that they get to work together because I do feel sometimes people think oh it's alright for you to say that Sharon it's alright for you but when you've got other people and they're all going through the same thing you know then they relate to each other a little bit more but on the flip side as well they also get one to one sessions because I know things that they will not divulge in a group session because there's a lot of shaming guilt about what they don't know so this is why my belief in holy group programmes for trades don't work in the same way as they would do for other sectors and that's coming from knowing your client base do you have to while we're talking about that sort of you know insanity and stuff you get a lot of uh to deal with people's like mental health like sort of things like do you you see a lot of that do you do you ever turn around some say listen you know you should be talking to someone else here because obviously you you're not qualified to talk to that but do you actually advise people say look at the moment you need to go down this route and if you had that of a fair bit I would imagine yeah so like I said the entry point to doing any work with me is a free consultation and as part of that is looking at okay what's going on in the person's life yeah and I'm very very honest with people um I've done work like band of builders before so Tony from there great charity who who kinda open my eyes to the issues in the industry about 3 or 4 years ago around the stats around um mental health and suicide in the trade which is astronomical yeah but when you drill down on the the figures in the data behind it the top 3 issues are money related yeah tradespeople should not have money issues I don't it blows my mind but not apart from that everyone needs them yeah everyone needs them we're not gonna go and do that work ourselves so if there's a disconnect between you know people committing suicide and the top three issues being money related and then me as a business coach can stand in the middle of that and be like okay well there's a solution why we not talking about the solution and what I find with people is they are so there's so much guilt and shame about what they don't know in the state that they've got themselves into they end up with addictions they end up in all kinds of problems one guy bless him his wife referred to me um to him and then turns out he's got hundred and seventy five grands worth of gambling debt that she didn't know about and that's keeping it on keeping him up at night he's making weed to go to sleep you know and you've got this whole cycle yeah going on underneath now I can't do anything there's not much I can do with that he needed to go and get the help yeah yeah first sort that out and then come back and let's have a look at what we can do from the business side but always say to people bound to builders are amazing for what it is that they offer and what they do I think across the board men generally don't talk as much as women about what's going on and sometimes they just need um an outlet and it's having an outlet where they can talk without judgement so in the trace speak to people how you do yeah I'm busy there's loads of stuff going on in my head I'm like open your books let's see and reality isn't always the same as what it portrays itself to be and they come in front of me and it's like verbal diarrhea for what's going on and some of it's quite sad and a lot of it is unnecessary and can be worked with or be can be solved yeah in a fairly easy way but one you have to admit that you need some support take accountability yeah two you need to go and find it you know and make sure you've got a good person to do that with but three you also then have to put in the work hmm because it's not that there's no magic bullets there's no you know happy pills that I'm dishing out or anything like that there has to be work done behind it and a lot of that is looking at what you haven't done right so far that we need to correct and the consequences of that so it's people taking consequences for their actions and then taking responsibility for their future yeah interesting one more thing as well while we we keep banging about tradesmen have you got trades women on your I haven't I haven't I've been speaking with task her to do some work um with them and definitely want some trades women on my legs yeah because the dynamics is slightly different yeah but they've all got needs like us to still running businesses in a and obviously if they could have like a little a little light I know and tighten up on the on the business or or they might be doing something slightly bit wrong and you still can talk to them hundred percent because it's a human behavior yeah game that we play and men are wide differently to women I'm glad somebody said ladies finally said it it's always a man who says that women are worth differently we're wired differently we are worth differently so we're more risk of earth sometimes where is men will go and take crazy risks on stuff yeah so that then plays into business cause sometimes what happens is men be like yeah I can do that job no problem I'll go and take though I haven't got the staff haven't got the lollies but I'm gonna provide it through won't be like yeah have I got everything that I need have I got all my qualifications have I got all the boxes ticked and they'll fall back on something that they should probably move forward yeah on so those things affect people in business in different ways so that's just one thing but the other thing that I noticed across the board um as well is there's a lot of uh people with neurodivergents in the trades so be that ADHD autism there's lots of things underlying that kind of sit with um their ability to hold attention to take in information what if we spoke about this I think I do this for a living so yeah it's so information has to be delivered in a specific way to make sure that people are getting and absorbing that information which is why the general school system most trace people haven't done well in the school system because their brains are wide differently to the way that traditional teaching do you think do you think that we've get we get a lot of this neurodivergent sort of stuff now coming out do you think this has anything to do with tablets and phones and things like that this is really interesting so I've got a eight month old nephew and I was having this conversation with my son in the car on Sunday and we were talking about the fact um that phones and tablets they now show they were trying there there was a pregament um the radio talking about banning them for children before the age of 2 because it affects their development yes who young still but I still know that people give babies phones so if you yeah they give them phones and tablets and even TV just to shut them up yeah so my nephew bless him he just like mesmerized by the if the TV's on you can't do anything you stand in front of him he wants to scream you know it's just mesmerized by the TV and the phone and I do think there's some environmental things that have gone I do think some of those things have been there from a long time ago so things like dyslexia that probably weren't picked up before so trace people sometimes back in the day you'll notice when they were writing things sometimes it was lots of spelling mistakes and things like that so intelligent but just from a an academic very very there's a there's a very there's a big world disconnect I think back in the day people was like if you wasn't very academic they'd say it go work on a building site you know what I mean and like it's weird in it because you could have the the brightest kid in the world right and you could have the the the not dumbest but like least intellectuals academic yeah academic yeah but but he's got common sense yes and the one with all the bright has got none right do you know what I mean I know exactly what you mean yeah it's it's really weird but I think that the as the world changes in this we've got all this new software and everything obviously we've always had screens since we were kids and it but that could be turned off now kids are like planted on it you know they planted on it they're in restaurants on it and I really seriously think because I think and I'll help me hands up here but since I've been on social media as affected that up there with me being concentrating levels and stuff like that it's definitely so I will get I'll be doing one thing and then all the sudden I'm doing some I've always been like I've never been able to concentrate it I don't think it's a phone to me in school they'll be reading the book in English back here at short term I'm on the wrong page I just I've never had the yeah there are I'm not saying this I'm not saying that that's it's not always been there but what I'm saying is is the phone's more of a trigger for that thing that's underlying which which might not which might have gone unnoticed yeah but now the phones that are basic yeah I think all about endorphins well for everyone the phones have become a major attention yeah so it's affected all of us in the sense that are um our ability to hold our attention on things is just decimated you know quickly over time which is why things like reels have come out because people won't sit and watch anything for a minute so it's like getting shorter and shorter and shorter because our attention span doesn't work so that's why television programs are not doing as well now people wanna binge a whole lot they don't wanna sit down there and actually wait for an advert or you know where's back in the day we if you wanted to watch when you wanna watch Eastenders before you needed

to sit there at 7: 1:04:58

30 now you can watch it whenever you like yeah you can watch it whenever you like you can get your fits whenever yeah so it's made us really attention poor hmm and even if you're not using your phone your mind is constantly on I wonder who's messaging me yeah what's going on in in one of the things that I get clients to do they're not allowed to touch your phone for the first hour of the day and for some of them that's really really hmm hard it's like give yourself that time hmm first thing in the morning before the world starts demanding things yeah from you cause you can't complete a thought if all those thoughts are being influenced by 50 different people on social media as we talking do you know what I mean is yeah yeah and remember used to be on planes and that was the only time you would get no phone no Wi Fi no nothing you just kinda had to be in the moment and now you can get on the plane you can get on the training you get Wi Fi everywhere if you do if you do like just give your phone up for a day it's very mind refreshing and mind refreshing it can cause anxiety in people I know but like for me I think if I could just get rid of my phone for a day and then after like I think you'd be pleasantly relaxed and I always tell my girlfriend's always growling like a bedtime like why are you doing that it messes up your sleep it's like stimulant before bed is like she couldn't scroll but then and then I'll get my phone out what are you doing back together scrolling yeah you know that's not what you're supposed to be doing I know but you've been watching like you say TV program as after at first hey you watching TV hey you watching TV program advert comes on you get your phone out yeah it's almost like we can't bear to sit with ourselves can you imagine if all of a sudden the phone networks just shut down imagine imagine do you ever think right um it's interesting in it because I'm on a building site right and I think to myself how did these build if if everyone's phone on that building site stop now that would come to a stand still that so in the old days they was using telephone boxes they was using FAX machines and buildings were going up yeah but now you wouldn't be able to do that it would what I'm just sure it would after a lot a few 6 months or so of rebuilding like our like our mindset yeah and and stuff but you you just thinks of the world would probably come to a standstill now if if all everyone's phone just shut down it would just be like whoa that that's a little bit like lockdown where people realise that they needed to spend time with the people that they had chosen to have in their lives yeah and because all those distractions were taken away so they can't go out they can't do their sports can do stuff then they realise you know what person that I'm with I actually don't really like them that much that's why we had a lot of breakups during lockdown I think the same thing would happen if we took away our phones we'd have to sit with ourselves in our own demons which we don't really wanna do so it's a great distraction but I like I like when I've got a long drive coming out I get excited for it cause sometimes I listen to a podcast but a lot of the time I'll just drive in silence yeah and I just think especially through the countryside and stuff that's great yeah just like thinking while I'm driving just have nothing gone you're a shit driver you're a terrible driver he's a terrible driver he drivers how to fix terrible he's a sort of bloke right he's the at bad driver he's not no he's that sort of bloke right he will let out a dust car do you know what I mean you should let out a dust car yeah you are you terrible yeah all these red lights he went through do you know what I mean don't think about me no fool thinking and driving I terrible driver to get a speeding ticket on my back as well as could you think about me yeah don't say that completely that's not good yeah concentrate on the driving gear yeah want to dig at me Pete let's get that one in yeah it's been a good conversation very informative yeah and I will I will have the consultation of you please you ain't yes please another one yeah but yeah right so let's start writing down what we need to earn and what we actually earn and that might open my eyes to actually be not you know earning as much as what's going out son yeah honestly just writing stuff down to start off with I say to everyone just right don't get any fancy software don't do anything special just start writing down I'm addicted to it and then we can add in software and different cause otherwise software becomes another distraction hmm hmm so if you don't have a diary just go and get a diary go to W Smith's and go and get a diary just start writing great stuff got a diary that's a start yeah because if you're holding it all in your head there's no space in your head to really come up with don't get me wrong I hold a lot in my head still well we need to get more of that to get out of there yeah get out get out yeah I didn't know if you wanted to give an overview of what you do where they can find you yeah so how they get their call yeah the best place to find me at the moment is on Instagram so there's a link on there just press the button and it will get ask you some questions so you can book in for a free consultation plumbers Angel Plumbers angel plumbers underscore angel um on Instagram having some stuff redone to the website at the moment but I think social media for trace people is the best place yeah to go yeah thank you for coming on yeah thank you very much appreciate it really enjoyed getting to you again yeah it's great to see you I'm looking forward to keep working with you you better tell him I'm very confidential you won't know thank you very much thank you for having me on bye thanks alright this has been another episode of off the Job Podcast thanks for watching the show on YouTube or listening on Spotify Amazon Music Apple Podcast and all other streaming platforms if it's your first time watching or not make sure to subscribe below and follow us on all the big social media stuff like Facebook Instagram TikTok for our overtime show Monday send us in your stories and comments for it to be read out on the show send it in via email direct message through our social media accounts or WhatsApp us on 0 7 4 5 7 4 0 6 2 5 9 and we see you on the next episode