Inside the War on Tool Theft with Shaoib Awan and Met Police sergeant Dave Catlow

One year on from launching a national movement, Shoaib Awan returns to the studio, and this time, he’s brought backup.

In this unmissable episode of Off The Job: A Tradesman Podcast, we’re joined by Shoaib Awan, founder of Trades United and the man behind the viral petition to stop the sale of stolen tools at car boot sales, and Sergeant Dave Catlow, the police officer now leading frontline efforts to combat organised tool theft in the UK.

Together, they break down what’s changed in the past 12 months, from two major protests in Parliament Square to successful tool marking events in partnership with CT1, SelectaDNA, and Wickes. But more importantly, they answer the questions every tradesperson wants to ask:

Are the police really taking tool theft seriously?

What role do SelectaDNA kits play in tracking stolen tools?

What’s next in the battle to protect the trade?

This powerful episode clears up myths, shares real solutions, and reminds every tradesperson: you’re not fighting this alone.

🔒 Tool theft affects 2 in 5 tradespeople. Don’t miss this vital episode – hit play, hit share, and get involved.

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⚠️ Warning: Contains adult humour and strong language. Tradesmen banter ahead.

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Transcript

0:00

right welcome to another off the job episode we have a couple of guests in today we have Sergeant Dave Catlow yeah from what police area police so Bexley Bexley area and also we have a schwebber one yeah also known as the gas expert on social media and um the man who's behind all the tall Feff rallies etc what you're seeing lately and um we just grabbed them didn't we we just been we just been the one we see come down and have an interview we wanna know what's going on yeah I mean that but we like getting no Dave cause Dave you massively behind of all this in a um so how long have you been in the police folks Dave and when what why did you get in the police folks um I'm not sure why I got in it to be honest honestly went for the fire brigade oh did you police were playing more money at the time so okay um yeah I'll be on our fires about that possibly I I um yeah yeah commission um now I I um I joined the police 23 and a bit years ago now just come up yeah 20 three and a half years yeah um and started off uh southeast area around Bromley did most of my career initially on team in Bromley then moved over to Bexley then went to Lewisham um on response team for the second time round over at Lewisham um and now back on Bexley on safe and neighbour teams yeah so you got a bit of experience there yeah I've done a lot of the various roles within sort of front line placing from sort of proactive and you know schools and safe neighborhoods and yeah so the nicer areas and Bromley Bexley you can't be that bad Lewisham was quite busy but yeah it's been varied yeah you said you done yeah the background in trades not as a tradesman but he was involved in some sort of trade yeah I I left the college um and wasn't sure what I wanted to do so I um started working for electrical wholesalers on the on the counter front counter sales um did that for a good 4 5 6 years and all that before joined join the police um it's crazy how it aligns in it now you like yeah police and involved with the tool that's probably where I got the sort of passion for it in a while I remember that banter I got on sort of really well on that tray counter and enjoyed enjoyed that banter and working with the tray did you have any tricks played on you back then when you were a kid like maybe a few yeah really long wait and long wait yeah packet of amps the usual stuff about this webs and he's not been through all that yet we've got to get him on some of them is it still waiting sky sky ladder and yeah has it been in the place in 20 years what was yeah we'll see it's yeah what you doing at the moment the arrest people you did I said I turn it what you do in the police let me see you guys around yeah that's not he's not what you what you doing they work from home genuine question for both working though I wish I wish it is very it really is very you know one minute we could be doing plain clothes work and another we're doing high visibility patrols reassurance patrols engagement like today uh doing the tall fest stuff um nighttime economy patrols you know drunk and roll rounds not ask them um so yeah it's it's very if you can share what's the craziest thing you've seen it's probably loads in there he got me on the spot yeah yeah by thinking about that day was a funny thing that happened the day though wouldn't it really oh yeah crazy but it was just it was we was at the tool station and there was the group of you like the community lot of you in there and you big wagon says police all over it and then another wagon that said police a gazebo we've met police and everything Uber driver pulls up reverses reverses realize that he was also blind and shouldn't be driving probably and and one of your colleagues went excuse me your bumper's hanging off there now if you have checks on him now I'm on table time I think one of the builders did a quick check as well oh really yes said just grasp he's got nothing there he's illegal he's got like this dear and that's sure and um yeah and now he's uh been uh is he gonna go and get MOT now he's getting it done as well he's getting MOT as we speak so you know not just there to help out the um people trying to fight crime against tall thief but also keeping the road safe for 2 with Dodio because yeah on MOT's like it's so easy to um miss it how many of you missed check his first you ask him what he does and the police then you basically you don't check he checks mots as well mate you know I mean he checks mots no but not like it got them done last week I started in the part now I put it in my calendar but in yes yes unless you get a reminder it's so easy for it just let it go yeah I must admit it's happened to me in the past as well I don't think he's uh yeah he's even known anything about a reminder to be honest but I think he's more yeah he's more concerned about the um the front of the bumper that was on cable size he was getting some ceiling that's what he was gonna get some ceiling but he's got a ticket now and he's getting MOT so yeah a little bit of engagement and enforcement on the same day which is good so um yeah whatever did you ever think about any crisis I didn't know you um you diverted me and didn't you my mother in law was actually in the police while she always used to go about being on team my brother in law was as well she worked in the um the pay value unit for 8 years then we had like kids and it was like can't do that no more and I expect spoke to your social uh to your media guide yeah cause that's where my mother in law ended up finishing off cause she was originally a journalist before she was a cop alright so then she went into the media side of it down there in um last hour I think she was that's when she finished her career so um yeah I've had a lot of them what is this someone else where an MOT um yeah yes I've had a lot of dealings with the police on the right side of the law just a little bit stop digging a hole stop digging a hole yeah yeah yeah but but yeah anyway so you started off in the trades now you're yeah and moving into the tool fest yeah how have you would you wear that before getting into this so if I'm honest I mean we dealt with it if it if it cropped up it it doesn't I don't remember it propping up as often as it does now um but it wasn't something that was you know that was focused on and looking at you know if we go back five six seven years ago um but I think it was the neighborhood policing when I went back to neighborhood policing um and we started seeing the overnight reports coming in more and more um but uh my role really is it's kind of the motor vehicle crime spot for the area that I mean so you know an offshoot of that is theft from motor vehicles cause it was tools that was cropping up all the time yeah I mean it was always it always just about that car radio has been jacked in it from cars and in the old days now used to happen all the time didn't it but I think with the like the social media revolution over the past five years you're probably more aware of it anyway because people always go on their phones go straight what's happened yeah you know what I mean and then more and more people will like report it and stuff and then that's probably why you've got more reports of it now than you ever did then people were more aware of it which comes out to the next question is how did you meet him like how did how did that come about you know what I mean I was walking through a sales one morning and I looked in cell one no actually for your serious there he was oh no he blanked me initially I um I saw the work you know you know with the algorithms you start looking at stuff on social media and certain things crop up yeah yeah not that I was searching him up but he started cropping up on the algorithms and around the uh the tall fish stuff um so I just reached out to him one day and sort of said you know um I'm doing some work we were at the matter that time we were doing tour marking events we done two or three local events um around Bexies sick up Crayford reached out to swab and said look you know would you be interested in coming along having a look at this um I he told me to do one around about he wasn't he wasn't particularly interested and couldn't see it so I said look come down to an event and I'll convince you you could probably take the story over from yeah cause the thing was after seeing so much stuff at the Car Blue sales and I've been to loves and I'm sorry I just made that I said after being to all these Car Blue sales I saw so many tools and it just used to make me really angry hmm hearing about people's vans getting broken into and all this concept at that time I did a petition as well I think I met you after the first rally as well um the first rally that was in June think it was just just after that and yeah and I thought to myself right what's the point of marking tools was trying to explain something about tool marking to me and I was like what's the point of marking tools because you know I need the tools the next day so I need to replace them I'm gonna go buy them anyway so I've lost out my van's broken and marking the tools I don't know cause the whole perception about the police not doing anything and I thought do you know what probably six months later I said today you're gonna phone me and say I found your tool but it's too late for me I've already bought tools and probably got broken into another couple of times at a time as well by the time you guys are gonna get to it so for me tool marking doesn't really doesn't work uh and I sort of that that's where I left it and uh I didn't speak to Dave and then at some point cause I was doing all these things around the car boot sale so we've got all I think 15 car boot sales started putting up signs saying no power tools sold to this no power to sold to this and one guy contacted me and he said right there's this car boot sales I wanna get these banners done like these a boards and stuff like that and I've got some done can I can you meet me somewhere and I wanna show you these car uh these balls and it's quite a thing to me like why would you make these balls out of your own pocket hmm well I don't even know you and you trying to give it to me so I thought somebody was trying to stitch me up to meet him somewhere right so so when he got in contact with me he didn't say he was a police officer just said Dave something on it well some numbers on his thing and I was like probably the same kind of thing was trying to call me down to one event so I literally don't wanna speak to him so I think I left him for um good few weeks and a couple of weeks at least I didn't get back to him and then after I phoned him then he contact me again and then he actually phoned me yeah um that's when we had the conversation and I decided to write go and see I had no idea what selected DNA was I had no idea about this tool marking events so I turned up to the Screwfix I believe and I do you know what I did I parked in the car park opposite Screw Fix just to see if it actually is an event before I even pulled up in their car park I was just so worried that saying it was getting stitched up yeah so apparently the other car park and I watched them then I when I saw the police gazebo thing and the banners that's when I drove into him and I went and saw him I didn't know you sat watch it for a little while right well that's silly you know it was doing it was doing it outside your ass no did research me I did a proper check on you but don't be offended that he didn't get back to you straight away cause when I first started I need to go out 904 as you send him DMs all the time he's like nah mate blank him don't talk to him you know what I mean who is this no no it's no it's when you when when people you always think the same thing do you know what I mean when you get like messages from people on Instagram you don't know you do perceive caution now because like you you've got no idea who's watching you especially if you've got a big like platform like swear do you know what I mean and and and people send links etcetera etcetera you got be a bit security conscious so it is hard to get through to people do you know what I mean some people don't even accept messages whatsoever do they so it is um but good that in the end you uh met her obviously and then um I think it's safe to say you were convinced weren't you you uh yeah the first time I saw it and when Dave spoke to me and said look the most important part of marking your tools is that we recover quite a lot yeah and we can't return it to people and that's when it sort of hit me the bigger picture because obviously the whole thing I was exposing when the car boot sales and online and pawn shop selling them it sort of hit me in a way because I thought to myself people write names on them initials on them and that is not gonna be good enough proof for them cause proving stolen goods or handling stolen goods is probably one of the hardest things to do cause if they said to you I found it what are they gonna do nothing it's quite on site a name on it is website yeah but identify when we was at work on the tools when we had um we used to work in like gangs of us um in like doing flat bashing that we'd all have our tools we all got identical tools like colors this that and ever and my mate we got wear me cars wear me cars I got they're my cars and then you might have got no they're not they're mine I put three little scratches in it like that is that I put nothing does it you've just picked them up and you've literally just done it you know what I mean so you're right like putting names on it or anything like that is useless any like markings that's only identifiable to you but it don't mean nothing but this stuff is really like it's next gen in it you know what I mean on the on the scale of like the the DNA in the actual identifying yeah and the total big thing for me was when obviously this whole thing was starting off when me and Dave he said come and have a look at one of the compounds to see what's going on so we got permission and they got permission for that I visited it there and the amount of tools we saw hmm it was incredible pallets and pallets bags full of tools that people just knit the whole bag you see like a tool bag full of tools tools and you see like six or seven officers sitting on the floor with UV light and I'm setting what they're doing and look yeah the first thing to look for is any sort of marking like the way that the police want you to Mark at all so not by writing your names and we saw how many names on there we still got a video up on Instagram I think it got yeah like I don't know how many views it got but again it had Tom on it had DMC on it lt on it and said to me what was supposed to be a Polish nape what was supposed to do with these and he said you tell me what would you do with him in front of you and I and I just that is when they hit me and I said you know what that is why it's so important to market tools and since then we've been literally going on about it's not it's just that it's also the the hours and hours of searching through checking if they're being registered to UV light in them all to then get zero yeah if you got one you think at least someone's got their tools back and my question was my question always was why has the police not doing enough about boots so look all the pictures up on the internet people have done that they're like you're wasting our time we go down there can't prove nothing we gotta give it back to them hmm and then yeah it sucks people don't see the bigger picture unless you involved and you know so much about this and then you think I'm trying to tell you to get these kids and you know the hardest part is these kids aren't cheap why it works a pound at all yet but some trades people look at a 51 or spending 50 pound boom to work so hard with so many companies for them to fund it so it cost you nothing to do and you still don't do it yeah then you are the ones to be blamed hmm don't pick your things at place they're not doing it what have you been doing yeah you know all we want to do is get 20% off the trades to market then if to be hundred percent if that 20% market you seen how many tools you see on the floor every time you go to car boo so they're cropping up everywhere thousands of tools you see and if you go and Mark put a Mark on them you won't probably want to find one tool yeah cause there's not enough people doing it it's not only that the thing about the kits are a lot about the kits they've actually got you've got the van stickers obviously that come with them as well and yeah it's the biggest deterrent and you've also got you've also got a sticker that is visible on the tool that is is impenetrable in is it you can't it was not as you can't get it off very easily it's really hard to get off yeah you imagine if that just a van and they've got all those tools in their car they're not gonna sit there on the back seat trying to get every single stick oh yeah there's gonna be a point so there is a visible point of light yeah these are and that also reminds the officers when they when they season them this one's marked yeah it speaks up for us oh we'll put UV light on this one it's got a sticker on it yeah you know something's been scratched off it yeah you know it gives him but that that that did that DNA testing has got code in it and what it does it gives that code to that specific tool you register that code don't you with selected DNA so within the fluid there's thousands of thousands of little microdots on each microdot it's got that unique yeah number links back to that kit to that that register person um and yeah when you post it on and the good the good thing is with these is that even if you managed to put some fluid on there that hasn't got one of those microdots you've missed one off of that thing they can still get that DNA profile from the fluid alright so it's actually embedded with those with fluid as well as well we'd have to send that off to the lab to get that done but but we can get it done even if you just get a fluid show up so you'd be able to do that yeah but with the dots we can look at those at the point of arrest if we've got someone in custody um we can we can take one of those dots put it onto a piece of white paper get a get a microscope on it and we can get victim there and there which means we don't have to bail that suspect out we can we can almost go for a charge there and there because we got that victim statement so so a question I might ask then um I asked you earlier is what what can be done with the tools that cannot be recovered so they sitting in a warehouse somewhere so what happens then what can be done with them is there anything positive that come out of them just sitting there in a warehouse that's a hard one at the moment they tend to go to auction at the moment um I I'm looking at trying to set up a Tallbank scheme um um whether that be through using those tools um that we've seized and getting getting them back into circulation is almost like on a loan basis for a new bank yeah um or certainly there's funds that are generated from those auctions and we're also looking at the option of um basically accessing those funds to purchase new tools to then have a toolbank setup where we can actually um issue sort of free tools on loan out yeah when people do if unfortunately have that happened to them then yeah that would be a good idea when it just get people back on their feet so they can carry on working the next day literally within two days you know yeah a new set of tools comes down you know you use them for how well however long it takes your insurance to be sorted out or however many paychecks you need to replace them then you return them and then the next person this opportunity and obviously the more money we can get and the more tools we get for that the more people we can help I'd imagine if sulk start off London and then I think we should say this as well it's like whenever you purchase a tool as well like keep your receipt in it I mean that might sound silly thing to say now but so many people don't or they miss that they put them away they can't find them do you know what I mean like keep hold of them and leave them in a place that is easily accessible to you if ever that unfortunate there's a lot of insurance companies won't pay out will they it makes a lot quicker for the pack if you got a photograph and you've registered them yeah you know and a lot of this there's companies out there I didn't realize until I started looking into it that if you register your tool with them and your tool get stolen they that company will replace it replace it yeah and you'll have like say a three year warranty on it your tools get stolen after year one when they replace those new tools you've still got two years left of warranty on it you know the warranty continues so you're mad if you don't register the products yes but make sure you keep yeah register the products you know and that helps us as well if we know it said that the wall and they're registered with the wall you know we can go down that routes at the moment there's a lot of companies that are doing these registrations you know you can record on their database yeah police officer at 2 o'clock in the morning isn't gonna sit down and search 18 different databases in cases register on that one or that one or that one or that one yeah um you know the first protocol with the tools generally at the moment we would always sort of check selectors database but if it's Makita would go on to Makita and check that we um do you wanna ask questions I'm just gonna say is it yeah is there been any feedback from that tool manufacturers of what they could do I don't know give the option to buy a kit with your tools and is there been anything some have paid some have contacted isn't around putting um putting kits in that would be a good idea that yeah and and not you know what what ask anyone out there that would be interested in doing that to yeah jump jump on ball because the more we can get out there the better yeah um but some of your tool companies get in touch with selected DNA and get them like you know yeah but yeah it's because people won't not everyone more like you say some people are like uh uh some people might be like oh I got 50 quid or whatever I do not mean 50 quid 50 quid some people and they might go oh just risk it it's easy to but if you buy an hour and you starting out and it comes with it there's no there are no excuses then he said if you jump on obviously it's gonna still be on the price but if you're buying tools at the same time then it won't be so like I've got to go out and get that sort of thing yeah and I think that's what we're trying to change in a way it's almost changing the culture if you buy new tools or anything of value property marketing kits and computers if you buy something nice new that's expensive market yeah why not why not the guy that was filming today it came down he took a kitten yeah and did all his all his keep with it so we should do why haven't we I thought you would have done will be what have you been doing mate you just sat cause they're gonna create a video to do it like they're gonna create a video marking the camera that's why that good idea that Robbie was that your idea Robbie no right bad idea Robbie yeah I should go to the van and get the microscope out as well if you want to have a look at it and you zoom into it is that what you need then these days where is it microscope is it unfortunately sorry it's cold today but now it's a good event but it is a good little event our good little events in Australia and it makes them quite a few now so it is creating a lot more awareness but what it is is the bigger companies that come on board now like weeks yeah they done two events they wanna do more and then uh hopefully I think tool station homeboard CT ones on board with just so many different companies that are now just wanting on the tools uh fixed radio they're doing it on fixed fest uh huh uh where else we're doing it next uh think about another one you bet one um its that's another big one thing here recently its are huge online ITV was down a day as well when they ITV were down I think BBC are coming to the next one or something yep yeah so all the all the media channels they're all on board and they wanna keep on doing stuff so I got a message from Sky News as well cause already been in the studio and so let's do a follow up on it yeah so let's see what progress you get and then get the new story and yeah so this is good that it's a mainstream now so everyone's sort of talking about it online you see so much around it when you never used to hear it before yeah but what we would like to see as well as as tradespeople as well I don't know if you can comment on this day but like obviously this will be where the parliament come in and stuff like that what sort of like what we looking for as in like punishments for these people while we were we able to say what we what people will be looking at like as another deterrent to say like will you get cold this is what you're gonna get you know what I mean is that is that is that coming is that I think that's the the Bill that Amanda Martin MP for um Portsmouth isn't she um that's what she's she's working on at the moment and trying to bring in so um basically this is the way the sentencing is set up um the the average value of tools stolen falls within or under £5,000 yeah so the sentencing can only go to a certain level and most of the time it's you know so community service very very rare you get custodial sentence so what they're trying to say is look yeah I cut it that might fall under 5 thousand pounds because they've had four and a half thousand pounds worth of tools but what you're not taking into consideration is the cost of the repair to the ban yeah and the cost of lost work because of that and actually generally then pushes it up towards a 10,000 pound and overmark quite often therefore it jumps from that category to this category and there's a higher sentencing um screen on on on that on that section then so yeah I mean I'd like to see something added to that like this is called somebody's mental health to deterio deteriorate do you know what I mean yeah and they do look at that aspect as well yeah you know the risk that's happened as well so yeah if I was to put a Bill for him I won't be completely different to that one I'll be breaking into a trace person's van or any sort of force entry should be a punishable offense simple as that it just eliminates all this it doesn't matter even if you nick a screwdriver off me damaged the van my insurance has gone up for the next five years because I've made a claim just to repair the door and then just the anxiety and the frustration of you being at work worrying about what's going on outside honestly the other day I put a message up done a sort of story I refused a job the guy had a job for me I would earn some money out of it as well and he was like I said where's your parking because you go park on the other road I literally messaged him sorry you go find someone else if I can't see my van I'm not doing the job I sent that message to him and I put it up on the story in Instagram I get so many messages and I refuse a job I'm not doing it if I can't see my van I'll rather not do that job or if it's a regular customer I'll get 60 pound ticket they'll pay my ticket yeah I've got a picture of my I've actually got the ticket in my van gonna have a look 100 pound ticket I said the customer 60 pounds gonna early payment but I'm gonna add it to your Bill because I couldn't find parking and he's he's willing to pay it he wants me to the job but it shouldn't be like that no it's it shouldn't be like that and some people haven't got the luxury of turning down work yeah and you know they're exactly they're chasing me I mean I'd prefer not to see my van on the job she's quite embarrassing I thought I'm gonna close her mind of that but yeah I may not go okay I think we're gonna wrap your one up as a funeral and it's not just a tall thing they break his bloody everything now so it's DPD vans what's the other one at Amazon how many vans they broke into that I went to TV old's place it's not far from here go and have a look how many TV old vans turn up every day they just literally cut the doors open and take all the parcel weapon around Christmas and the new iPhones came out every pretty much every single DPD van got done yeah see and the thieves are so well aware of this stuff because they know nothing can happen but they will never touch a royal mower van because that would be steam from the royal so that would be treason so I've never ever heard a royal mower van getting broken into or touched so the whole system is so messed up and they're so clued on to this but good thing is they know about this stuff that selected yeah this is why it's so important to put the stickers out on your vans so that straight away they think you'd almost forensic stuff rather not touch it and if we do take stuff we won't be able to sell it so if that message goes out to everyone that is that is the most important thing that you need to do there is stuff going on in the in the background as well I think we've always said them where there's there's there's three or four elements to this you've got the registration and marking of tools got the boot sounds which obviously we're looking at and it certainly steps up the agenda within the police and I'm certainly hearing a lot more noise around boot sounds now and looking at those um you've then got the security of the vans um and there's a lot of changes that are happening there within um the new vehicle uh security assessment in VSA um faction uh actually sort of govern that and that that links him with insurance companies so up up to up to now we've always had that issue where the the system's been set up to stop the van from being stolen not necessarily the goods within the van um from being stolen because ultimately that insurance covers that van from being taken away yeah the goods are in the back off they're not a different insurance and not covered so as of February this year um the criteria has changed on within that assessment framework so it's based on like a scale of 1 to 100 and if your van is is high up you know 90s 95 100 then it's gonna be cheaper to ensure because it's it's secure it's meets all the requirements it's you know it's a safe bet the lower down that framework that goes then obviously your van becomes less desirable to ensure becomes more expensive on insurance people then don't wanna buy that type of vans you almost forcing the manufacturers into doing something about it and that's what faction have done recently in February they've bought in some new legislation around that or some new sort of protocols around that so they have to have um more secure locking on the rear compartment of the van double locking just like you would have on the cab of the van um and also the alarm system should be working in the back and front so I know some of the new vans now actually got like the mesh through so the sensor in the in the front of the van go through and pick up in the back so someone breaks into the back it will still set that that alarm off um so so work is being done around that and I think there's as a sort of two years until they have to comply with that so any new vehicle coming out in 2 2 February's time we'll have to have those extra locking facilities on that rear door and that alarm system within within the back as a standard when when Bill so there's there is work being done around that and also keyless technology and there's some some new legislation and some stuff changing around that as well which will come into place soon but ultimately the price of the van is gonna be ridiculous we all know that because it is gonna put the price up again Ford I will say this to them as well because they say the van manufacturing needs to be better vans this that I get that side of things but Ford make vans for over 100 countries right they've got change the whole plant the whole thing around just making a special van for UK customers because we got a problem why not deal with the problem rather than making up changing the whole band around that's the way I know how they think that's a that's a perception I get from them cause I've been to the full events as well and this whole thinking change everything around because I think it's a multi layered approach if everyone does their their bit and the and the police step up enforcement the van companies change this people Mark their tools you know it all helps yeah Dave but when the US came around my I had a perfectly working van and nothing wrong with my van it was exactly the same as once he parked outside it the only was is it was in white this is in gray my one was low mileage I said I got it at good prices nothing wrong with it I have you know and cause of the U listing came up so they made us sort of scrap the vans cause you know um we'll give you 7,000 for it and just get get a scrap get a new van so I spent 28,000 pound now on my new van get all the everything done got slam locks on it and then like cut the door out so again I'm out of pocket so it's frustrating to see that every time it's a cost it's a cost get alarm done get hook locks done get this done get the vault done and they still have a go and now gonna have a look at my side door it's got screwdriver Mark on it because it literally bent the door again do we and you couldn't claim on insurance honestly I don't wanna claim insurance I'm not gonna go on yeah no so our patient yeah so I paid 600 pound to get the door strained up because where the lock is on the side side door they put a screwdriver just to see if it's locked or not the bus got disturbed when they put the screwdriver they had to open see if it's locked and that they try to do in a brand new van literally made the side of the door go like shit yeah but yeah P shaped then I take it to the mechanic get to hammer it all in touch it up a little bit but it's horrible me because I'm thinking but you spend money in such a nice van you've laid out money for this van do you know what I mean yeah it's supposed to be your workforce this is your offices they're breaking into it's not something else that's what really makes me angry do we do we think that talking about the security in the vans and that and it's been touched on before but if we make the van impregnable is that the right word impregnable can't fit me for example yes yeah do we fear that the thieves will come to the house and try and get the keys that way or do you know what I mean that is that a fear fact it's always a concern isn't it yeah but what I would say is if they wanna avoid that because they know full well if you start using violence if you start committing burglaries yeah their sentences yeah get caught and also they got more chance of getting caught um obviously steps up the priority you know if people are using violence and breaking into houses think clearly we know we we can only deal with so much so we have to prioritize stuff yeah you know and you know when you've got um knife crime violence against women you know people are breaking into houses and using violence we've got to prioritize and that is always gonna come above the theft from a motor vehicle unfortunately it's just just the way it is so they wanna avoid that because they don't want our specialist teams looking into it and and the funding looking well I think what we wanna avoid as well is the fast and I bought this out with Frank the other day at one of the other tool one uh rallies in uh uh tool market events in ST Albans was the fact that we don't wanna see a tradesman go outside and take the law into his own hands and then actually being convicted of something that he does in the heat of the moment yeah or the worst case scenario that he actually gets injured by that person do you know what I mean when it becomes a violent offense then because we don't really wanna see that happened in either do we do you know yeah it is really awkward we will always say look don't get involved step back you know if you can feel me great you know safely then do 9 9 9 call us immediately then on the other hand you've got the lad recently in Sitkar that that jumped in and and help pull out the carpenter with his van and you know we're gonna give him a pat on the back and say well done you know so but everyone's got their different fresh out of mate and it is really awkward as you say this there's that fine line between defending your your property and then that one extra one extra punch that could land you in trouble yeah you know when when you know the subject subdued and the extra punch goes in so we always say look just call police yeah let's be honest I mean you'll get them people you'll see these things happening online and you'll get the comments online I'll go out there swinging I'd be this I'd be that they will get my tools all this like macho bravado stuff but reality check if there is two free geezers out there then and you catch it you don't know what they've got they've got they've got sharp objects to get your door open yes and then sharp objects can penetrate you so my advice would be probably do not go out there and confront them because it could end bad and it's different either way depending if you are like a mixed martial arts or whatever you could get in trouble for doing like damage to people who were taking your belongings do you know what I mean is that that's that's where we are aren't we and also they they obviously know where you live if it's on your yeah if it's on the street and it's away from your house you know you you might you know you might think differently but um it's easy for me to say I must admit if I was in that position you know who knows I know you might not adapt to whatever say fresh outs are different in everybody and whatever but like um you got you got a thing you know you got a thing especially got families etcetera like that it's it's hot topic and and it's very I think important to what's the way what's the word I'm gonna say I think it's important to approach it delicately in it I suppose like not not you you gotta figure yourself first your family you know and I know yes it is affecting your family if they're getting your tools but at the end of the day they they will they will they will dead there yeah yeah 100% did you yeah did you say the charges early would be based on the value of what they take yeah this is this is what the legislation changes are are looking at as um as a whole so that the cost of the van the cost of the goods the cost of the day that the yeah that's just saying at the moment it's been on just the value of the total when but now this time no we got around we managed to do that all that time of work cause obviously 2000 is quite a lot of those tools and then replacement yeah cause you're losing that amount mate so I think it should be on value they've got in your back it's the same offense it's a traitor ban bang I never understood that though is it like that I've never understood why for somebody you don't get done for attempted murder for murder like do you know what I mean somebody gets more years for murder than some does attempted murder what just because they failed at it they they get less time that's because you're crap at murdering people so you get less time oh you got another chance you stab somebody you stab somebody are you intended to try and kill them but you yet you'll get less sentence for attempted than you do actual murder that doesn't make sense to me yeah it's not always the way but I hear I hear what you're saying yeah yeah yeah sort of a little bit of a point I don't know law inside out but yeah obviously the police get hard time regarding to all fair fly we call them up they don't do anything what is yeah what is the process of someone calling you up and so yeah for obviously the initial offence happens um do you know what the first thing is phone up and report it it's a lot of people that don't report it for start and that makes our life difficult in the sense that we we can't see patterns happening if we know there's a certain car park that's been hit you know 5 6 times in the last couple of weeks then we will know about that yes we could we could do stuff around it without giving too much away there's stuff that we can be doing there yeah but if we're not getting told that information and people aren't reporting then you know we it's like tell me how the first time around and then second time they might report it but third for fifth time because nothing happened the first two times I think it's gonna waste my time just called insurance and all just getting another tools I've seen people driving around they don't fix the doors anymore yeah yeah now they're gone by rubbish tools no that's just my van yeah that's my van my van just looks like 5 years old oh wait look at me there was a a record job last year in Kent and that was someone from social media um making contact with myself around the guy I don't think he'd reported it actually I might be wrong um whose drill got stolen was tracked to a certain place in Kent we shared information around that they did some work on it and they then did it right and they recovered £2 million worth of power tools to yeah I remember that yeah I remember that yeah and that was you know I I I might be wrong but from memory I was told at the time he hadn't reported it you should know about this and that's when we did some work on it yeah and and I think it was then reported and as a result of that you know all those power tools were recovered um and a few extra bits as well yeah a few arrests I think seven arrests so it was a really good result um and that guy had a had a tracker on his drill so you probably bought his drillback but then rest of them didn't Mark nothing so well this was the thing I think they recovered 12 or 15 items out of all the thousands of power tools they recovered and um I wouldn't be surprised if most of those ones I recovered were high company stickers you know it was a couple of days ago she had another post with the Norfolk police when they caught a guy and get £10,000 worth of tools on him they seized all the tools but they're looking for the owners and no again no one's marked anything so get your tools marked yeah I think that is the is the object is it Mark your tools up with this stuff we've seen so many good jobs of you getting them accounted yeah we've seen so many posts with it trying to find the owners yeah my Facebook is full of it please saying the owners can come forward let's see it but again no one registers at all no one marks the tools and then you say and I guess it's the same for us you know she's saying people say I've been it's happened two three four times what's the point in reporting it again how many times that officer gonna sit there for hours scan scan scan no nothing nothing nothing oh I've seen it I've seen it first hand and I went there and I saw everything and I know what goes on there now because yeah again no marking just names on them chance of you even knowing that your tools are there sitting there you probably watching this now and thinking you know what my tools got stolen like this a year ago your tools could be sitting in that compound right now yeah as far as you know you'll never hear that they've got it you can't yeah maybe if you identified and said that's my name on there yep you still wouldn't be again no I think that toolbank could be really positive yeah see that that's a big process to set up yeah if it's yeah to be done right that's a big there's been a lot of emails and a lot of phone calls already and yeah we've we've only just sort of started on it really so I think that will push people to call up by having that cause they know they can get something to use until they get their tools back and yeah that really help and I think there are there is one company that started it on a smaller scale up north I think um so you know the more the more those are set up the better but if we can get a national one set up um that links into the police forces and you know certain charities yeah um that um then yeah that will be will be fantastic just a bit back up so um so what's the future for you though Dave now let's get over what's the future for you now Dave what future for you Schweb like what where we going after this in the next few years what is your plans any plans next few years retired well I suppose you can't go undercover now no exactly we plastered his face all over I think I'm taking over your job then I still got a few years left in me you don't look young I'm not retired is he old Dave you know what I mean not far off he looks younger than Schweb yeah he does not the tools yeah yeah yeah he's told Nick but my days are 72 hours long so that's why I look older eight days a week that's a lot of time now isn't it four years in these last two stressed stress well you've been doing a lot in here even yes like if I'm flying around everywhere literally coming to pilot no that's not necessary sometimes ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha I reckon what he does I reckon what he's gonna do he wants to work for the place in a helicopter cause he's probably gonna get his helicopter license next then they probably gonna be tracking right over the window yeah he's got his heat proof cameras pencils camera on the go chasing people what you gonna do chef you stand in the industry what you doing what is your what is your plan I'm on the tools still people think I don't work I'm on six days a week I'm gonna get one day off I spend it with my kids about six days I am on the tools and all this extra stuff that I do I do in my own times I don't really get time for myself to do anything you know I don't I used to go to the gym I used to do all so many different things now to the past year and a half I've not stopped even now after this job I've got another gas difficult to do and one service so I'll be home late hurry up then yeah I know sort of it's extra sort of extra 48 hours in the daily yeah it's true that's how it feels like honestly there's so many things in one day that's just non stop I mean this tool marking thing as well again is one of those things I've got to be there cause we've made our bed now we gotta lay in it haven't we we got yeah it is you can't you know what I mean you talk about it online and they were like oh yeah you spoke about it and then fucking turns up it's it's so it's difficult and you've seen the events that we've done we spoke a lot about on and people turn up we did 146 in Birmingham I'm not even from Birmingham cause people kept saying why you come up north why you come north that went really well hundred 46 kids times that by 50 if you both part tools a lot of numbers yeah and then the other one we did I think 86 different location every location different than how many we did today it's close to 100 but we were on the fetch show we've given out there I think we did about 80 or 90 kits on the fetch that was busy that was lost uh last year wasn't it yeah that's the first time you went on it and now we got the installer show coming up and that's the turnout on installer shows over 50,000 or three floors now so you imagine the people when they see this product there yeah yeah how it's gonna go do you know what I mean so and I think my team have done 15 20 events now so they're all adding up you spreading your DNA about everywhere should have been ya another two events now I've got one that I'm planning with and that is gonna be with its on the 29th of April yeah yeah it's Harlow different area again never done one in Harlow there's a lot of trades there that's a big world that's a big place funny I remember speaking to to it yes and I was saying how few I can't remember the exact stats but how few people register their tools for that extra warranty so if they're not gonna warrant register them for an extra warranty extra years warranty on them you can imagine the difficult we've got to convince people to register them just in case they get stolen so it's yeah it's just get drumming that in and it's like starting a new culture up like you say that yes like getting that right and it's to make people understand especially the government officials when tool theft happened we complain about tool theft it's not a screwdriver or a drill that we've just lost you said whole livelihood livelihood and when you're in a specialist trade like for example your gas engineer I'll talk about myself so the get the analyzer cost over 15 quid now turns out with the printer your power flush machine's about two grand and you've got Thermal imaging cameras you carry all this stuff with you cause you need to do it for the job and you lose that you've lost a lot of money and that's literally different than a second to grab a bag and go that bag cost you I love and I'll smile and I will enter one and I lost it and I had to go to work I can't do my job without the analyser I can't do gas difficult I can't do service I need that bloody thing and yeah I'm thinking myself now and then I found up cane and bought analyzer the next day I spent 1,000 pound on a cane one just to get back to work I don't forget the rest of the tools I'll recover I'll do some I didn't have tool insurance that was another my fault but I never thought this was happening I've seen so many trades people recently got broken into and they've come up and said we never thought this would happen to us you know it's often what you hear isn't it it's like buying safe after being heard that culture's changing now where people actually I know people oh but it's not a good thing where people actually walking out going has it been done do you know what I mean yeah I think there's more where people more wary of it now where because it's so prolific and everybody knows about it I mean I certainly do when I walk up to my van in the dark I'm looking at things that door open is it no as you as you walk in as you approach him yeah it's not even my van what am I looking at no green nasty van I even break into my vans and it fags the tools behind the tools of rubbish it's with the fags congratulation kid yeah if you had anything any negative messages or anything about all this no it has been pretty positive to put there'll be people out there listening and you know I disagree with it I think there's there's this floor or that floor okay he's asked he's asked me all that over the years on my Instagram you go for all my posts for the whole year and a half that I've been doing since the petition till 2 rallies until now you won't see a negative comment about anything around tall theft or what I've done whenever I put a police video up or show them doing something positive the negative start coming in and that is because over time people have got this perception they don't do anything they're gonna come they're gonna all I'm gonna do is crime Rev I totally get it cause I've got crime reference some of myself twice but then again what are we doing to help them when they are to asking you to Mark your tools for how many years this stuff is not new it's been around for 35 years oh really yeah it's not new isn't it how 100 countries yeah the actual concept of marking I I don't know about the actual technology on this how new it is but yes certainly the concept around marking and selector have been around for four years I think yeah yeah yeah four years so when they are asking you to do the right stuff so they can you we can help them as well to get things done cause it's such a big task to deal with tools this every tradespersonal about 50 tools imagine all the trades people how many tools that is then the the thing the mess is too big and to sort it out to start make a start and be regarding about a year with more how many thousands and thousands of tools yeah it's gonna help in the long run because a you're gonna get recovery cause you don't you'll get stuff back secondly helps them with all these places like pawn shops boo sales that the reason for events getting broken into in my opinion and they will start facing charges and problems once everyone starts understanding that's so important to you put something that gives them this thing cause it's a conviction isn't it 100% conviction rate so yeah straight away it's you know they they end up getting arrested for handy stolen goods um next time someone comes and offers them a load of cheap tools that they clearly know stolen they're gonna think twice about buying them yeah they remember last time they they ended up you know having them all seized off of them and you know yeah and being too nicked what about you then are you gonna um are you gonna run for Parliament ever no are you sure ha ha ha are you sure is that done for your ex no never it actually does it I enjoy what I do because I know I've got people moving in the right way and it should be because I I've got strong ahead mate if I believe in something this I wouldn't listen to myself because I know this just it can't how can you break into a van and think that's so right you know what I mean so that I just everyone said to me don't do it it's a waste of time they don't listen to you I didn't listen to them it's been a year and a half and now we can see the change what it is you already keep going you already strong and if you do all them bloody marathons and you do there you learn how to fly a plane and stuff in like three weeks and then you know what I mean it's like ha ha ha ha is that mental stuff that he does afraid of like you know that ship's gonna do so and he's like gonna actually like you got to see something through a seed in it swear like a lot of people just go on ass of that thing oh so like yeah no and and your persistent shows in this as well because you've been doing it now how long you've been doing it year and off yeah yeah year and off I started last may so yeah yeah last may yeah it's been a year and a half yeah yeah yeah then I take me off to you mate you start uh incredible work but it's so good I I would have never thought do you remember I came to your podcast last time while I was sitting by myself talking and I sitting with now you you under arrest with yeah yeah and you're and things have moved in the right way you're sitting with we'll talk about that later is this something we need to know is it oh he's got his team is the coolest team honestly we got the Met Police and we work with Essex Police and all these different things that we gone to Ford event there's so many things different police forces that we work with it's not just a I met but he's as I said um Dave's team incredible so much fun yeah they they need to get a lot of credit for it cause they're the ones out today lugging it all around and we're gonna do a tour at the police station pretending it's Nick to put myself just leave him there I just take his van and you can imagine him kind to the places what do you do in here what do what what what do policemen do I can't remember slinging in the slammer oh and I enjoyed that thank you yeah thanks for coming in Dave no you're welcome thank you thank you as always for coming in and continue the hard work you'll fight and uh we hope to see uh more improvement and things happening in the next year hopefully we'll see some major changes and uh you know be done to you guys so yeah it is happening thanks very much it is happening and also the MPs of how many MPs we've got on board that is massive that is big yeah the ones who make this decision that push things forward if it wasn't for the noise we made outside parliament you were there as well been these things were not moved yeah honestly when we the second time we went out and they literally I spoke to 6 on the square yeah I spoke to the one as well yes Amanda was there Margaret was there who else was there there was mathematics was there I think there was another three I don't know what the name Lincoln Lincoln's coming after Lincoln's yeah they said we came out to see the noise what this is all about because the first time we went out there was no government the second time we went out they were all there and there was a tank which made all the noise yeah this is a tank in the square Louis French the local MP turned up today didn't it and now they're all working and even when we went to parliament they all literally came out in there and spoke to us oh I think what I'd like to say is as well if you are listening assistant like you saying about you didn't get a lot of negative comments but I've seen a lot of negative comments on things where people posting and say oh I never make a difference blah blah blah blah all I would say is on that side of things please like you're entitled to your opinion yeah but maybe just don't air it if you don't think it's gonna work that's that's up to you but we don't want people getting influenced by negative comments on on socials where they might think you know what I can't believe her cause that a comment can make a difference do you know what I mean a negative comment can make a difference so I think anything that we we you anyone is trying to do something positive then let's just keep it positive and just keep your negative opinions to yourself if you wouldn't mind do you know what I mean that's what I say ask questions by all means you know yeah but there's a way of doing it yeah there's a way I do it sometimes I see people put that poo poo and stuff a lot you know what I mean you'll get that and you will get that honestly I mean I I always complain about one thing I was quite disappointed about and that was when it came to getting signatures and trying to share petition and people didn't wanna help out and then they said it was such a struggle even raising money for these kind of things is always a struggle nobody wants to put their hand in pocket nobody wants to share your things it's like as if people wanna see you fail do you understand it's always been like that around me and I don't really understand what is in their minds that bothers them to share a post takes 30 seconds you're one of the people that could be affected yeah and I've had people that never showed anything but they had the courtesy to send me a message in the broken van and say I got broken into I'll start sharing your stuff I'm so sorry I didn't do it before it's too late now yeah what do you want me to say to you I still said I'm so sorry I'll see if I can help you out yeah by my mind I was just thinking to say you're that same person I used to tag that I told you to share something and you never shared it and I'm watching you're sending me the pictures of your broken van yeah why cause they thought never happened to them yeah no well this is what people don't understand it's important to share it because my following is big it's probably the smallest one out of all of them I'm on you everyone's got more than me yeah but you sharing it to a different audience would make a difference to educate someone else yeah you are so yeah you are what are you doing here I just asked me a question I was just cleaning if you got any questions we put Dave number in the description yeah Dave does really good CT one videos honestly I was talking about today as well so I said if you when you retire I'm gonna do some really good video of like fixing some Christmas Day he said I put music with it that's some Christmas music and then it went into another Christmas music and a Tina Turner channel I was like wow Dave you look really good at this social media stuff in you maybe you should work in a social media department that's a nice to retire to yeah I play them at police and a cheeky gas expert and CT one was this dude he's watching all the videos why is this dude tagging me I so funny thanks babies it's so incredible why so good why is this such an like he's very similar to me I think we were similar he looks younger than you no not not not not much wise but how how per se was I think we got well because he he's getting if he goes after something doesn't stop cause I know quite a few stories about it just keeps going till he gets it if it wasn't tools if it's not tools maybe something else yeah yeah stop this podcast just do his van for anything out there we try to get 20 seconds out of it sure but anything else you want to talk about I know you've got 20 seconds sweep sell yourself can we catch you on onlyfans or anything like that yeah I'm thinking about that next thing now thanks guys thanks very much sharing it all with us and coming on board to talk about it thank you thank you